Actually what is going on in the West Bank is worse than what ICE is doing in the U.S.
ICE illegal actions are recent, happening for less than 1 year, and are being resisted by Americans.
In contrast, settler violence against Palestinians and their property has been going on for years, and the Israeli people, except for a tiny number of activists, are doing nothing to stop it. And they keep electing governments that enable settler violence.
Are there Jewish Americans seriously making the case that the ICE raids are somehow worse than what is happening in West Bank? If so that is shameful. As bad as the ICE raids are, what is and has been happening in the West Bank is far, far worse.
Haters of the very existence of Jewish people on the planet earth. Your obsessive pathological need \to tye everything in the my country, the USA, has really grown into a psychological dsm,v category all its own and is growing really old. Just “go outside and find something else less Texaco to do. Frankly, there is no there there any more and is insulting to real folks in Gaza and Judea’s and Samaria whose necks are under the boots of Hamas et al.
Heh. My Rabbi, synagogue, family, and JCC would all be very surprised to learn that I "hate the existence of Jewish people on planet earth."
That said, I confess that I am embarrassed that there are Jewish folks like you. the kind of person who if they were German in the 1930s would have attacked Hitler's critics as haters of the German people.
Jews are wonderful, and we have a proud history (including the remarkable creation of a Jewish state in the 20th century). But part of that history is standing up against oppression and hatred including when it comes from fellow Jews.
As a Jew, I'm proud of folks like Josh Shapiro, Angela Buchdahl, and Rachel Goldberg-Polin even though I'm never met them. Similarly, as a Jew, I'm embarrassed by folks Stephen Miller even though I have never met him either.
You come across as someone who supports folks like Stephen Miller. Hence, my embarrassment. On the bright side, I'm frightened neither of you nor Miller, just embarrassed.
The comparison is apt, and doesn’t offend me at all. What’s offensive are the murderous human rights violations being condoned or perpetrated by the criminal regimes in both Israel and the US.
Well said, Ilan. Both ICE raids and settler violence are disturbing and stem from the same racist authoritarian leaders attempting to exert control. We must fight them both, thank you for saying that. ICE is Trump’s Gestapo, the comparisons cannot be unseen and unsaid.
Another unfortunate comparison is the casual and ahistorical use of the word “genocide.” A train that J-Street is now riding. In this you join a continuum spanning Zohran Mamdani, the New York Times, Tucker Carlson, and assorted anti-semites of the left and the right. One doesn’t have to condone, no less be happy about Israeli brutality to see that there is only one narrative now: the blameless and pathetic victimhood of Palestinians. This history did not start in Gaza. What since 1948 have they done to change their own circumstances?
Too many American Jews shrug. Some because they are true believers and others because they are afraid to speak up and be scorned by friends and families.
We need to start acknowledging that settler violence IS state terrorism the same way that we need to face that Zionism, even under the Labour coalitions was expanding settlements and contributing to Palestinian erasure. Liberal Jews need to confront our own demons.
Thanks for your most eloquent explanation about the similarities between what’s going on in the West Bank and in Minnesota. It makes accepting your analysis much easier.
This is so silly. An embarrassing and pointless comparison you are in contortions to make, that helps neither cause and just advances your biases. Shameful stuff, if I'm honest.
I wanted to continue and say I support your courage in reporting this. The earlier messages making excuses for Israeli violence are pitiful. I've read the bible: Israeli has hated and fought its neighbors for thousands of years.
The violence in the West Bank is intolerable and should be strongly opposed by all Israel-supporting people in America. I think the majority (perhaps large majority) of Israel-supporting American Jews already agree on this point. Though as you alluded to, it is extremely painful to hear/see, calling attention to this issue as J-Street is doing is important and necessary and I appreciate it. That said, I think comparisons between what is happening in Israel/the Palestinian Territories with the darkest elements of American history (both past and current) is unhelpful at best and dangerous at worst. The history of the Israeli-Arab (and Israeli-Palestinian) conflict is complex, multi-faceted and largely unknown to most Americans. It is different than the history of America and facile comparisons to more familiar circumstances when made are often inaccurate and inapplicable. Too often, those who seek only to harm Israel, and not necessarily help any Palestinians, wield these comparisons (which are often grossly exaggerated or flat out false) with vitriol and reckless abandon. But these comparisons catch on with otherwise uninformed individuals and often get amplified by those who are either covertly, or in some cases overtly, antisemitic. I've seen this play out on college campuses for many years -- and not in a helpful or productive way for anyone. If you want to talk about the problems in Israel and the Palestinian Territories, talk about the problems in Israel and the Palestinian Territories. But please leave the ahistorical comparisons out.
I think the closer comparison to the US is law enforcement in the Jim Crow south. There was a system of racial subordination, that was legal, and that was enforced both by officials and by private violence (the Klan). At best, Southern law enforcement winked at the private violence, at worst, some of the members of law enforcement were participants in the Klan. Perhaps there was also a similarity in that, for a long time, the national government of the US tolerated the violence.
As a Jewish American, I know that the Netanyahu regime is allowing settler violence to go unimpeded and condoning killings and confiscation of Palestinians" property. Since the horrific events of October 2023, I can't bear the reports of West Bank "settlers" nor the awful killings of Gazans. My priorities are here and I just can't spare the bandwidth of outrage at the IDF and settler violence in Israel. Both ICE and IDF/settler atrocities must be stopped. Trump has the power to stop both.
You say as a Jewish American you know what the government of a country half way around the globe is doing or not doing? Really? I’m a Jewish American and I have no actual knowledge about the internal government rationale of ANY foreign country, including Israel.
May I ask what is the source of your knowledge ? I
By the way. What have you done to support the people of Iran who wish to return to a pre-1979 free country?
Actually what is going on in the West Bank is worse than what ICE is doing in the U.S.
ICE illegal actions are recent, happening for less than 1 year, and are being resisted by Americans.
In contrast, settler violence against Palestinians and their property has been going on for years, and the Israeli people, except for a tiny number of activists, are doing nothing to stop it. And they keep electing governments that enable settler violence.
Are there Jewish Americans seriously making the case that the ICE raids are somehow worse than what is happening in West Bank? If so that is shameful. As bad as the ICE raids are, what is and has been happening in the West Bank is far, far worse.
Haters of the very existence of Jewish people on the planet earth. Your obsessive pathological need \to tye everything in the my country, the USA, has really grown into a psychological dsm,v category all its own and is growing really old. Just “go outside and find something else less Texaco to do. Frankly, there is no there there any more and is insulting to real folks in Gaza and Judea’s and Samaria whose necks are under the boots of Hamas et al.
Heh. My Rabbi, synagogue, family, and JCC would all be very surprised to learn that I "hate the existence of Jewish people on planet earth."
That said, I confess that I am embarrassed that there are Jewish folks like you. the kind of person who if they were German in the 1930s would have attacked Hitler's critics as haters of the German people.
Jews are wonderful, and we have a proud history (including the remarkable creation of a Jewish state in the 20th century). But part of that history is standing up against oppression and hatred including when it comes from fellow Jews.
As a Jew, I'm proud of folks like Josh Shapiro, Angela Buchdahl, and Rachel Goldberg-Polin even though I'm never met them. Similarly, as a Jew, I'm embarrassed by folks Stephen Miller even though I have never met him either.
You come across as someone who supports folks like Stephen Miller. Hence, my embarrassment. On the bright side, I'm frightened neither of you nor Miller, just embarrassed.
The comparison is apt, and doesn’t offend me at all. What’s offensive are the murderous human rights violations being condoned or perpetrated by the criminal regimes in both Israel and the US.
As opposed to that criminal regime called Palestine?
Well said, Ilan. Both ICE raids and settler violence are disturbing and stem from the same racist authoritarian leaders attempting to exert control. We must fight them both, thank you for saying that. ICE is Trump’s Gestapo, the comparisons cannot be unseen and unsaid.
Paul Zelevansky
Another unfortunate comparison is the casual and ahistorical use of the word “genocide.” A train that J-Street is now riding. In this you join a continuum spanning Zohran Mamdani, the New York Times, Tucker Carlson, and assorted anti-semites of the left and the right. One doesn’t have to condone, no less be happy about Israeli brutality to see that there is only one narrative now: the blameless and pathetic victimhood of Palestinians. This history did not start in Gaza. What since 1948 have they done to change their own circumstances?
Too many American Jews shrug. Some because they are true believers and others because they are afraid to speak up and be scorned by friends and families.
We need to start acknowledging that settler violence IS state terrorism the same way that we need to face that Zionism, even under the Labour coalitions was expanding settlements and contributing to Palestinian erasure. Liberal Jews need to confront our own demons.
Moral Clarity?
Palestinians launched over 100 terrorists attacks from the west bank over the last two years.
What other countries would put up with that before declaring war? None
How many times as J Street called it out? None
Thanks for your most eloquent explanation about the similarities between what’s going on in the West Bank and in Minnesota. It makes accepting your analysis much easier.
This is so silly. An embarrassing and pointless comparison you are in contortions to make, that helps neither cause and just advances your biases. Shameful stuff, if I'm honest.
J Street runs defend for HMS, no wonder no one takes them seriously.
thanx
I wanted to continue and say I support your courage in reporting this. The earlier messages making excuses for Israeli violence are pitiful. I've read the bible: Israeli has hated and fought its neighbors for thousands of years.
The violence in the West Bank is intolerable and should be strongly opposed by all Israel-supporting people in America. I think the majority (perhaps large majority) of Israel-supporting American Jews already agree on this point. Though as you alluded to, it is extremely painful to hear/see, calling attention to this issue as J-Street is doing is important and necessary and I appreciate it. That said, I think comparisons between what is happening in Israel/the Palestinian Territories with the darkest elements of American history (both past and current) is unhelpful at best and dangerous at worst. The history of the Israeli-Arab (and Israeli-Palestinian) conflict is complex, multi-faceted and largely unknown to most Americans. It is different than the history of America and facile comparisons to more familiar circumstances when made are often inaccurate and inapplicable. Too often, those who seek only to harm Israel, and not necessarily help any Palestinians, wield these comparisons (which are often grossly exaggerated or flat out false) with vitriol and reckless abandon. But these comparisons catch on with otherwise uninformed individuals and often get amplified by those who are either covertly, or in some cases overtly, antisemitic. I've seen this play out on college campuses for many years -- and not in a helpful or productive way for anyone. If you want to talk about the problems in Israel and the Palestinian Territories, talk about the problems in Israel and the Palestinian Territories. But please leave the ahistorical comparisons out.
Ilan,
I think the closer comparison to the US is law enforcement in the Jim Crow south. There was a system of racial subordination, that was legal, and that was enforced both by officials and by private violence (the Klan). At best, Southern law enforcement winked at the private violence, at worst, some of the members of law enforcement were participants in the Klan. Perhaps there was also a similarity in that, for a long time, the national government of the US tolerated the violence.
I think the comparisons are fine, but explaining one with the other is not.
As a Jewish American, I know that the Netanyahu regime is allowing settler violence to go unimpeded and condoning killings and confiscation of Palestinians" property. Since the horrific events of October 2023, I can't bear the reports of West Bank "settlers" nor the awful killings of Gazans. My priorities are here and I just can't spare the bandwidth of outrage at the IDF and settler violence in Israel. Both ICE and IDF/settler atrocities must be stopped. Trump has the power to stop both.
You say as a Jewish American you know what the government of a country half way around the globe is doing or not doing? Really? I’m a Jewish American and I have no actual knowledge about the internal government rationale of ANY foreign country, including Israel.
May I ask what is the source of your knowledge ? I
By the way. What have you done to support the people of Iran who wish to return to a pre-1979 free country?